EP. 40 Raising the Next Generation: Morenikeji Oloyede on Literacy, Play, and Identity

Morenikeji Oloyede’s life work centers on equipping young children through language and literacy. In this episode, we explore the holistic development of the African child, from the stories they consume to the home environments that shape them. She unpacks the counterintuitive, essential benefits of physical books over tablets for early cognitive growth, alongside the silent danger of youth growing up without seeing their own realities reflected in the media they consume. Moving beyond the page, we examine the deeply formative elements of the home, breaking down how to correctly interpret sudden behavioral withdrawal in kids and the critical questions caregivers must ask themselves in those tense moments. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are in the world today. Welcome to the We Win podcast powered by Accelerate Her Africa in partnership with the Human Pattern Institute. I am your host, Lolita Edgeford, and it's a pleasure to have you listening today. A few weeks ago, I walked into a Children's Foundation launch event, and I walked out completely undone by the woman I met there. Meeting is Morene Kji Oloyede, the early children's specialist, literacy advocate, and one of the most quietly powerful voices in the conversation about how we raise the next generation of African children. Morene KG has devoted her life's work to something that sounds simple but carries enormous weight, ensuring that African children grow up with access to stories from their own world. Because she understands what happens quietly and deeply to a child who consumes a lifetime of stories where their faces never appear. Their communities are never the setting, and their kind of life is never the one being told. She makes a bold case for physical books in an age of screens and endless digital content. She speaks about the formative power of play as serious work that builds what nothing else can. And she speaks honestly about what parents do at home, often without realizing it, that can shape or silence a child's confidence for years to come. For every mother listening who wants to raise children who are grounded in identity, in love with stories, and confident in their own voices, this conversation is for you. So let's dive in. KG, welcome to the WeWin Podcast. It's such a pleasure to have you here with us. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I'm very well, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for putting this on your platform to share the information with as many people as possible.

SPEAKER_02 2:21

Great stuff. Okay, KG, before we get into your work and your thinking, we want to know how you found your way here. How did working with young children, specifically around literacy, language, and learning become your life's work? Where did the passion come from?

SPEAKER_00 2:41

That's an interesting question. Because when I look back now, I uh I can see how the little pieces you know came together, but at the time, it didn't feel it didn't feel like it. I've always been passionate about education and children. Uh when I was younger, in my teenage years, I used to do a show on Ray Power called Young World.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

And after I gained admission into Unilag, I joined the Child Ward Show as well. We used to do a show to create awareness on Unilag FM. But my interest in literacy and learning actually really deepened when I began working with families. And of course, um, thanks to my first job at Pop Lagos, which was a play center, I saw firsthand the impact of the Playway method, the impact it had on literacy, communication, development holistically. And yes, I think that I saw that many children were not struggling because they lacked ability, and they were struggling because they lacked access to the right support, or probably the right learning environment, or the right learning approach that was like designed specifically for their personality as a result of observation from the teachers or the facilitators in the environment. And so uh what fascinated me was how much of a child's future learning is shaped in those early years and its impact. So I saw the quality of work we were doing and the difference in the results compared to other children that I've known in my community, in the society at large, you know, it was the gap was too much. It was too much. And so uh as I worked more with children, I became increasingly interested in the science of learning and child development, you know. So I wanted to understand what children learn, but how they learned. And uh that led me to explore fully the play-based learning. So I stopped dilly-dallying and I just, you know, went for it. I just went for it. And uh yeah, I saw, you know, the impact on language acquisition, identity, confidence, you know. So it's like all the things that you want adults to be. You know, you say, Oh, can you be more of this? Can you be more of that? Children could be all that if we fully delved into the play-based learning approach.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Yeah. Awesome. I guess one would say you were destined for this.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Ah, yes, yes, because you you know, I almost studied mass communication. Because I was already in media, I was covering events at a very young age. Yeah. Um, because everybody said, Oh, your voice is so nice, your voice is so nice. But I did have an affinity for children in the sense that I preferred hanging out with them than with adults. So it's like I had uh short fuse for adults, but I had all the patience in the world for children. So I would naturally go down to their height, even without learning, I'd not learnt how important it was to, you know, go to their height to speak to them. But naturally it just came. I just wanted to, you know, look them in the eye and understand them. So and I thought to myself, what kind of life or future would I prefer? Hanging out with these people in suits or hanging out with these other people in shorts. So you chose the younger ones. I chose the younger ones, and I said if I really had a reason to switch, it was something that I already had experiencing, so I could switch. So I mean, there was no, I didn't have to go to school for that.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

So yeah. Awesome. I think we would have lost somebody if you'd gone to mass communication. But I think your drive, even your spirit seems so young, and it does make sense that you would get on better with those children. But I think you're also emphasizing a very key point that is that those foundational years that the characters are formed, you know, those characters you mentioned, like confidence, like language, communication, all of those things are formed at a very early age. Yes. And so if they don't have enabling environments, then they end up being really, really struggling. And and, you know, some may put it down to something completely different. Meanwhile, you know, their younger years weren't fully, they weren't fully equipped to to enjoy those things. Absolutely. Yeah, okay. We first encountered your thinking at an event where you made a case for something that might sound counterintuitive in an age of tablets and endless digital content. You spoke about the power of physical books, specifically in development of young children. Walk us through what you are arguing.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Uh yes, I remember that conversation well. Of course, it stuck with me. And you're right. In a world where children have access to um tablets, smartphones, educational apps, and endless digital content, advocating for physical books can sound, you know, old-fashioned at first. But my my argument wasn't that technology is bad or that digital content, you know, has no place in children's learning. Rather, uh, it was that physical books offer unique um developmental benefits that are difficult to fully replicate uh through screens, uh especially uh during uh during the early years. So um when a child sits with a physical book, the experience is multi-sensory. Touch, sound, that's from the adult reading the book, swiping, turning the book. I mean, there is a book called um Do Not Press the Button. It is absolutely multisensory. To put that on a tablet and and have the full experience could, I mean, it could be, you know. But I wouldn't say fully, yeah, because you get to turn the book upside down, shake it, and then you shake along with the book. You get to do a lot of, you know.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

That sounds like so much fun.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

Yes, dramatic things. Uh I look forward to writing the book as um interactive as that, uh, you know, so yeah. I would say that observing illustrations um and interacting with a caregiver who is reading alongside them. All of these experiences support language development, attention span, comprehension, and memory. You know, one of the things we know from research and from classroom experiences that young children learn language through interaction. Yeah. That's the only way, you know. So the real magic is often not in the book in itself, but in the conversations that happen around it. So um, a parent points to a picture and asks, Oh, what do you what do you think is happening here? And then the child goes off. One minute, two minutes, they're going, they're talking about everything they're seeing. I see the mouse, the mouse is going. Now, many times it's out of context of what the book is actually about. So the child interprets the illustration based on what they think, what they imagine, their own world. So a child will say, Oh, the mouse is going to the cat. Another child would say the mouse is running away from the cat. Another one would say the child the mouse is trying to eat something along the road. Different perspective. And then it is from there you understand how magical the mind of a child is. It's it's amazing. And you know, sometimes before I read a new book to a child, I just let them explore the book and then say, Oh, okay, what do you think? Yeah, what do you think about what you see? And then the back and forth interaction is incredibly powerful for vocabulary development and most importantly, critical thinking. So physical books also help create uh an environment where reading becomes intentional. Um, unlike digital devices, which are often designed to compete for attention through notifications, animations, and multiple forms of media. A book invites a child to slow down, you know, slow down, focus, imagine, and engage deeply with a story. Another point I made, books are often a child's first introduction to the wilder world. You know, you're seeing children who do not look like you, um, children who have different names than what you're you know used to, and different cultures, different experiences. If you read a Chinese book, you're getting a whole different experience from a Chinese writer than from a British writer who I was about to speak French. Oh French. That's okay, go for it. Oh, sorry, I'm I'm in my French phrase. It's just it's just, you know, I'm trying really hard. We get free French lessons, it's okay. So uh, you know, they learn to understand people who may be different from them in many ways. Books help children make sense of themselves and the world around them. Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:25

So much stuff you've said. Um, but I think what's most important is that ability to gain critical thinking because a lot of people are influenced by social media content.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:40

Without thinking about it, they're already under the influence.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

Yes, you have to you have to ask yourself when you see a new content and say, is this my idea? Exactly. Is this actually my idea? Or have I been I mean, I had to stop checking the comment section. I had to decide to form my own opinion um before I didn't go to read other people's opinion because I realized every time I saw something, I just wanted to click the comment section and see what other people were saying. What about what I'm saying? And if I'm going to be a teacher who is original and who wants to, you know, develop children to think originally, I must also do it in my personal life. I must be as original as possible before I let other people start to influence my.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

I know we're talking about children, but a lot of adults need this as well. You know, having a good book, Page Turner, is so therapeutic. I love, you know, reading a physical book. Just to start, even just moving and then look, oh, I'm in the middle already. Um, you know, I feel like I'm almost done with this book and it's so exciting. Or when is it gonna get? You know, all of that anticipation of the next page and the next chapter, we lose it on the screens.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

On the screens, you just get easily distracted.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

Yes. Exactly. One notification, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Yes. I think you have to be able to say, I'm putting my phone away. Yes. And I'm reading a book. Yeah. That distinction has to be there for your brain to work with, I think. Yes. Yes. I agree. Absolutely. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

You believe it matters not just that children read, but what they read. Specifically, that African children need access to stories from their world. Why does that matter so much? And what do you think happens quietly to a child who grows up consuming stories where their world never appears and their kind of life is never the one being told?

SPEAKER_00 14:29

That's a very thoughtful question. Um, I believe stories do much more than entertain children. Stories uh help children understand who they are, where they belong, uh, and what is possible for them. That's why representation in children's literature matters so deeply. Uh, when children see themselves in stories, their names, their languages, their families, their communities, their food, their traditions, they receive a powerful message that their experiences matter. Uh, they learn that their lives are worthy of being written about and celebrated and even remembered. So, for many years, African children have often grown up consuming stories from other parts of the world. I personally have my favorite children's authors, and I would say that aside from myself, which I recently started writing children books, I would say that I have limited African authors that are my favorite. Most of my favorite books, and many of them are not Nigerian books or Nigerian author books or even African Africa as a whole. And those stories can be wonderful, you know. Like I said, they are my favorite, most of them are my favorite books. And I think children should absolutely be exposed to global literature.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

But if that is all they encounter, there can be consequences. Um, a child may begin to see other people's experiences as the default, you know, uh, the default story, and their own are somehow less important. So they may learn about snow before they learn about Ahmattan. Meanwhile, they've never seen snow. Uh, so you know, you ask children. Um many schools follow the British curriculum. Yes. So you ask children and say, oh, what are the seasons of the year? And the seasons you hear are not seasons we're experienced here. You don't hear Ahmatan. You don't know the child has just learnt it, not experienced it. You know, the child may know the name of distant places, the history of distant places, reflect, you know, on those stories, but not on their own communities. Um, over time, they can subtly shape um how they view themselves and their place in the world. So, what concerns me most is that this process is often very quiet.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:55

You don't see the impact or the effect. No one explicitly tells the child that their story doesn't matter. It's simply absent. Nobody says, Oh, your story, but it's just not there.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

And um, absence is a powerful teacher. It's a silent but powerful teacher. You know, when a child never sees heroes will look like them, families that resemble theirs, or even environments they recognize in books, in everything they do, they may unconsciously begin to associate importance, uh, adventure, intelligence, or success with people who are different from them. Right. So, on the other hand, when children encounter stories rooted in their own culture and experiences, something remarkable happens. You know, reading becomes more accessible because they they can connect what they're reading to what they already know. Yeah, that alone is huge for a child, you know, and so their comprehension improves. Because if you're reading a book about Hamatan during December, yeah, it's highly relatable. Just link it, it's the same. So, for instance, whenever it's raining, and I'm teaching children, we don't start with whatever I planned. We first talk about the weather. We talk about the weather and we bring it to Nigeria.

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

We say, we live in Nigeria, it's raining, this is how it rains in Nigeria. This is the month of whatever, and it's raining in this month because this is our raining season, you know, and we talk, we take it to farmers planting, to everything that happens that is very important during the raining season. Everything we gain during the raining season, and that's how you do it, that's how you link learning with reality and experiences. So children deserve both, in my opinion. They deserve stories that help them understand others, but they also deserve stories that help them understand themselves. And um, you know, when we give African children stories from their own world, we're not limiting their horizons. On the contrary, we're giving them a foundation from which to explore the world with confidence. So uh yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I mean, what you said about interpretation of success that stuck with me because superhero is from this culture, and there's no representation of what a superhero looks like from my culture. So therefore, my culture cannot be superheroes. And it becomes a wider thing where I need to be a certain culture to succeed. And so when we're talking about books being more inclusive, because that's what's happening these days, I still don't see the validity of our culture. I see multiple of faces, which is fine. So you have different races in books, but are they truly reflecting who I am? Is the person you've depicted as an African?

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Really an African, except for their names. It's just that so because you put Toby there, does that really mean a child can identify with the character?

SPEAKER_02 20:07

Exactly, exactly. So if, but if you know Kola was eating Amala in the story, then that is context, that is relatable to my culture, and I think definitely it needs to come from us.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Absolutely. Um, no one tells us stories better than we do. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Okay, awesome. In your experience, what does a child's early relationship with stories and reading do to the confidence with which they eventually speak and find their voice?

SPEAKER_00 20:37

In my experience, a child's uh relationship with stories help them develop their own voice. And you find it, specifically in toddlers, once they're 18 months or even before they are in a need to assert themselves, especially when you've given them the opportunities too, like in books, in stories. So again, referring to maybe the very hungry caterpillar. Yeah. You've read it many times, and at some point a child can read the book by himself from the beginning to the end. Not that he can read it, he has memorized it from repetition.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yes, true.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

And so he can say, Oh, I don't want to read this one today, I want to read because you always offer choices. So I would say that, you know, every time a child listens to a story or reads a book or engages in meaningful conversations around books, they're building vocabulary, understanding, sentence structures. They're also learning how ideas are communicated. You know, there are many books that are social books, teaching social um values.

SPEAKER_01 21:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

So, like uh, you know, teeth are not for biting, yeah, hands are not for hitting, yeah, and all of those things. So from there, or emotions, you know, you learn how to communicate, how to use your words, how to say, Oh, I'm not happy about this. And that's why I feel this way, you know, and you can link it. And when they forget, you can say, remember this character in this book.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

And how they express themselves, even though they were angry. And the child can take a step back and reflect. Like, oh yeah, I do have someone I can relate with that also went through this angry, you know, phase and then was able to use their words to express themselves and reach a resolution. I can do that too. So I would say there is another layer that I think is even more important in the sense that stories help children realize that their thoughts matter.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

So when we read with children, we ask questions like, what do you think will happen next? Why do you think the character did that? How would you solve this problem if it were you? And in those moments, children learn that their opinions have value. And they learn to think, reflect, and communicate their ideas. And I've noticed that children will grow up in an environment where books, stories, and conversations are parts, they believe that, you know, these are part of everyday life. And they're often more willing to participate, ask questions, because it's their norm, you know, to say, oh, I don't understand that. Or why didn't the character do this instead? Why did they choose to go this route instead of this route? And they learn to think, to reflect, and communicate their ideas. So they become more comfortable using language as a tool rather than seeing it as something to hear, you know, especially with children that just get instructions rather than communication. So they develop imagination, and imagination is closely connected to confidence because there is something that it does for you. The fact that you can imagine, you can perhaps draw out something. I think that would probably come from creativity. Yes, that you are creative, that you can bring your own world to life using your words or maybe your pencil or whatever it is, or paint something. All of those things contribute to confidence. The fact that you can produce things, you're not just, you know, a consumer.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

You are a creator based on all of the rich experiences that you have had. And so, yes, it does develop confidence. And this is something that doesn't suddenly appear, you know. It is when someone becomes uh an adult that you see the impact of the quality of their childhood. Actually, when you meet some adults, you're like, okay, kudos to your parents.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Because you know, this foundation, it's it's it's giving what you should give, you know. And you only know that as an educator, most times. People just attribute it to people. But as an educator, when I meet someone, I can say, I can think to myself, oh, okay, these skills could only have been learned as a child, yes, honed as an adult, but definitely learned as a child. Yes. So um, yes, I would say that you know literacy matters so much, and it's not just a technical skill. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

So I'm gonna challenge you a bit. What roles do parents have in terms of ensuring the moral values? So, not just from simple values, but even things like manners. You know, some of our culture does not reflect certain things that we would call manners. They are things like please and thank you. And these are probably in non-Nigerian books, non-Nigerian context of those kind of manners. Where do we come in and blend the two cultures so that there is a sense of, because even though we may not say please and thank you, or certain words that indicate manners, we do have a culture of respect where you respect the elders and you respect, you know, anyone who's older than you. But even someone who's older than you should respect it, should be reciprocal. So, where do we intertwine the cultures for the best of both worlds?

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Well, I would say that um it is mostly, as you've said, um, our culture does not really respect the younger children. Like there isn't much respect for children in our culture. And so what you don't give, you can't demand. The most important thing I would say to parents is that people think that learning is academical uh for children. But there is learning with ears, but there is most importantly learning with eyes. Children are the most observant beings in the world because that's how they develop and that's how they learn about the environment. So, when, for example, you see toddlers, we say, oh, toddlers put everything in their mouth. But when they put things in their mouth, it's because they're trying to explore the texture, the sensory part of the world, right? Uh, it's the same way in every other thing that they do. They're watching to understand how to continue or live their lives. Exactly. So if you want very respectful children, you must be respectful adults around. So you cannot leave it to only the parents. If their aunties and uncles living in the house, everyone must come together in unity to say what kind of child do we want? How do we bring this child to, you know, in this particular way that we want? If you want a child to say thank you for everything, you must say thank you for everything. It's actually not difficult. It's actually not difficult at all. A child only reflects what they see. So if you're only kind and respectful towards people, a certain um group of people, they also will be kind and respectful towards a certain group of people. For instance, if you're not kind and respectful towards your um employees, they also will not be kind and respectful to the employees. So they will just believe that that's the way to treat the people that you hire or the people that work for you. But if you're respectful to everybody with the same level or the same degree, they also will be respectful to everyone in the same degree. I guarantee you.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

100%.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

100%. They will just believe that that's the normal way to live and to go about their daily lives. They won't doubt it. And so, whatever you want to see in your child, you must first be. So the question you want to ask yourself is Am I exactly who I want my child to be?

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:45

And if you're not, it's not too late. You can start, you can adjust, you can be better for the future of your children. You know, so I that's what I would say. So if you want very polite children, be very polite to everyone. Even if you want to go off on someone, call them to the south. Not never in front of your never, you know, have you can have difficult conversations. And it is from your it's fantastic because when you have difficult conversations around children with an adult, right? They're there, they're listening and they're absorbing. Of course. If there is if there is um strife in the air, they're absorbing it. If there is diplomacy, they're absorbing it. So especially between couples, you know, dad and mom, auntie and uncle, it's such a huge deal. Such a huge deal. Because that's how they will go to school and resolve conflict.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Yeah. 100%. I totally agree with you there, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

So I'm not asking you to smile. They don't need to smile when they're angry, but they know that they can hit somebody else when they're angry.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

They know that they can't, you know, poke or shout, but they can express themselves and use their words. It's as important as every other thing that we do. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 30:12

All right. You've spoken about children who seem to suddenly become uncooperative, difficult, withdrawn, resistant. Parents often experience this as something that comes out of nowhere. What is actually happening in those moments, and what should a parent be asking themselves?

SPEAKER_00 30:32

So when a child suddenly becomes withdrawn, resistant, aggressive, or seemingly uncooperative, and you know, they've not been like that, it's really coming from nowhere. Hardly ever. Right. From the parent's perspective, it may feel sudden, you know, because oh, my child wasn't like this before. Yes. We get that. But children are almost always responding to something an unmet need, an emotional struggle, um, a developmental change, a stressful experience, or an environment they are finding difficult to navigate. So I think one of the challenges is that adults often focus on the behavior itself. So, oh, my child was not like this. So now my child is doing this. Oh, how do I stop this? Oh, Miss KG, how do I stop this behavior? But I think a more useful question, not I think, I'm certain a more useful question is what is this child trying to tell me? Right? Um, because young children especially don't always have the language to explain what they're feeling. Um, they may not be able to say, Oh, I'm anxious, because they don't know what that means.

SPEAKER_01 31:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

They may not be able to say, I'm overwhelmed, I'm struggling with this transition, or I'm in a new school, or I don't feel understood in my new class, or instead, those feelings show up through behavior.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

And sorry, and some of them are as a result of their environment. So maybe they're too scared, even if they know what anxiety is, they wouldn't say, I am feeling anxious.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely. Uh, you see, children will have a change of behavior and personality because they're in a new class. You know, when you go from year one to year two, you have a new teacher. Yeah, you have new the same friends most of the time, but a new teacher and a new assistant teacher. All your teachers are new. And sometimes there is a misfit. Maybe the previous teacher really understood the child, but this current teacher, so there is just that anxiety to go to school. And then one thing about children, when you keep correcting the behavior without finding the root cause, they they act out. So the moment you start saying, why you're not sitting down, you have lost them. It's like you have pressed the trigger button. And I think that it's not difficult to understand. As adults, you are the same. If somebody is pestering you and saying, You've changed, you've changed, you're not listening. Yeah, something in you wants to defend yourself. But as an adult, maybe you have a better hold on managing your emotions. But they're children, and you're just poking them and repeating the same circle of information that they already know. You think a child doesn't know that they they're not happy, yeah, or they're acting out, or they can't sit still, especially for those children that can't sit still and find it difficult. You just say you can't, you have not said to the child, I can see that you can't sit still. Is there something happening? Yeah, you have not come to try to understand, even as young as two years old, you can say to them, I can see you're struggling. Is there something that you need? Do you need a hug? What do you need? The moment you show care, concern, and inquisitiveness around their behavior, there is a calm that comes.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

There is a, oh, she wants to hear me out. Oh, she sees me, oh, she understands me. And it works for anybody, even adults, instead of just coming with an attack of, oh, you've changed, uh, this just I've noticed that yada yada yada has happened. Is there anything going on differently than before? You've just opened a room for conversation. And I think that's it. For everybody, and children are not exclusive. Yeah. In fact, even more so.

SPEAKER_02 34:41

I think we even with adults, we have additional context or the body language. We're now reading extra. Whereas a child, it's much more simplistic in terms of good or bad, right, wrong, to see that those are symptoms. And let's have a deep dive into what could potentially be the problem. Um, because a child may not have developed some of our attitudes, some of the things that we carry with us, you know, judgment, all of those things. Absolutely. So that's really the time when they're young to have these conversations to and and it also helps a child to develop trust. Because with trust, I can now come to you with a problem. But if I came to you with my problem due to the eye you gave me, I'm not coming anymore. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 35:28

Yes, so I think that parents should just ask themselves simple questions like, oh, what has changed recently in my children? Or when did I first notice this behavior? Or uh is there a pattern to when it happened? Yeah. Oh, so this child that they said in school that he cannot sit down. Um, is there a pattern that triggers that? You know, what have I noticed? Or have I been spending enough time with my child recently? Yeah. Have I been busy? Is my child feeling heard and understood? These are the questions to ask rather than go on the offensive and attack, you know. So a child, I think that for children, behavior is communication. Imagine it as communication using a loudspeaker. It is not an attack on the adults. I mean, for children that you notice a new behavior, not children that have already been, you know, perhaps spoiled and have no boundaries, that's another conversation. But for children that regularly know behavior is communication like a child is screaming for help. You know? So if you look at it from that perspective, your approach towards it will be different. Rather than, you know, it will be different than the usual Hail Mary um thing. So it is your child trying to, you know, communicate. If they're acting out, yeah, are they tired? Are they hungry? You, if you're tired and hungry, do you do your homework? Your child has just come back from school. Now it's time for extra lesson. You, when you come back from work, are you willing to jump into another work so easily? So I say things like before, after school lessons, you dance, or you talk about school, the most important things that made you happy, so that you know the oxytocin are released, you feel happy, you know, you are revived. Yes. These are little, little things. We if you put yourself in the shoes of children, your approach will be different. Cessa. Sefini. Sefini. Oui. You know, if you put your just put yourself in their shoes. Don't just say children should listen.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Do you always listen? I think modern-day living has also played its role. You know, we're so busy, we come back burnt out, the patience to even pay attention to the children is not there. Um, you know, we we don't even want to know. So we hand over that responsibility to either to the teachers or to the nannies, and and everything is okay. And then we suddenly go on holiday with the children and we start noticing certain behaviors. And by that time, we've not even looked at the symptoms. I mean, the root cause. We're just focusing on the symptom and find out what happened to this child. So it is a conscious effort for parents to really be involved in their children's lives and be part of it. I love what you said. Just let's just dance around before we start our homework. Let's even get into the mood, get into a good headspace and before we start. Just relax. Yeah, relax.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

So I imagine when I do work with children, as I'm stepping in, I am activating happy KG. And happy KG, you know, um has to just stay away from whatever is happening.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:00

Right. In, you know, in KG, real KG. Happy KG is dedicated to, and that's why I said I use all of my energy for the kids. So I have little to no patience for the adults. Because now it's your responsibility to be a better human being. If you cannot, please leave my space. You know, and it's my job to make sure that the children that I'm working with also become adults that can understand, relate, and use their words. So one of the things I say most is, you are obviously upset. But please use your words. Please use your words. Are you so if you are struggling, I give you options. Are you tired? Are you hungry? Are you do you want to take five minutes to go move from pole to pole? What do you need? Do you need a hug? Whenever you say do you need a hug?

SPEAKER_02 39:48

Yes, Miss KG, can I have a hug?

SPEAKER_00 39:50

70% of the time, yes, they need a hug. So you can't see, they're struggling. Yeah. So there's no time you offer. Sometimes they say no, because that's not the problem. The problem is probably because you're asking them to do something and they think they can't do it. So you have to convince them, like, you can't do it. You know? And then I make mistakes on purpose in classes, so you can see that me too. I make mistakes. And when I do, I say, oh, silly me. Look at that.

unknown 40:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

And then they go, when they make mistakes, oh, silly me. It's not that deep. It's really not that deep.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

I'm quite sure that your students or your pupils look forward to coming to school to KG. No, not really. No. Even with everything, not really.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Not really. Not really.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

I just imagined you hugging them, I mean, as they walk into the class, but you know, I mean, they are excited.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

Yeah. But the thing is, it is difficult to do work.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Yeah. No matter how it's. But the environment matters. Yes, the environment matters. They would be better off going to your class where there's an environment of learning, of expression, of communication. So it would be something innately, of course, there's the work to do. They're there to learn.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

And the work is a challenge.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

It is. It is, even for adults as well.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 41:12

Alright, so we talk a lot about what children should read and learn. You also speak about the importance of play, not just as fun, but as something truly formative. What is actually happening in a child when they play? And what are they building that cannot be built any other way?

SPEAKER_00 41:32

Ooh, that's very deep. Ah, okay. I think one of the greatest misconceptions about childhood is that play is what children do when they are taking a break from learning.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

You know, okay, you are done. Go and play. Okay, it's time to play. There is a segregation.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

And but in reality, for young children, play is learning. Learning. And when adults uh look at a child building with blogs, pretending to run a restaurant, creating stories with you know dolls, digging in sand, or exploring loose parts, opening this bottle and closing it. Opening this bottle, as simple as that. Um beneath the surface, an extraordinary amount of you know development is taking place. Um, through play, children are making sense of the world, they're testing ideas, they're solving problems, they're experimenting with cause and effect and negotiating with others, expressing emotions, and developing language. So, in many ways, play is a child's first um laboratory. You know, they make mistakes without making mistakes. They make mistakes with no pressure. If a child is scooping sand and it pours out of the bowl, the child does not think, oh no, I've made a mess. The child is allowed. Freedom of exploration, of experimenting, of trial and error without pressure from anyone. They don't even know it's a mistake. It's adults that say, Oh, you didn't made a mess. You did scoop. So, you know, what fascinates me is that play develops skills that are very difficult to teach through direct instruction. So, uh, for example, you can tell a child about um problem solving. I don't know how you want to teach that. But when a tower keeps falling, I'm going to give you an example.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:29

Two days ago, or three days ago, this is very funny. I gave a two-year-old blocks to make a two-choo train. So it had wheels, you had to put all the wheels first. We built it. Technically, he built it. So when he built it, he decided to pile, he only put two layers of blocks on. So it's, you know, it only put like two, two layers of block on the six different um, I don't have to, I don't know the adjective to describe it. So, you know, trains have compartments. So there were compartments in this particular Blocks as well. So he puts like two choo blocks on each compartment. Then in the middle, he piled up all the remaining blocks. So what did he find out? There was no balance. So his train kept tipping over and having an accident. So you'll be going and you'll say choo choo, choo-choo, choo choo, chicka, chick, chicka, and then the train will fall. And then you'll say, Miss Kate! And then I would say, but you know, it's not balance. You have to share them equally. But no. We're there for 30 minutes. The train kept falling and he kept putting it in the middle. Did I stop him? No. Eventually, he really wanted the train to move from a particular point to a particular point. I think that was his definition of success or achievement for the task that he had given himself. So when he realized, after more than 30 minutes, so imagine my patients hearing my name every accident after every so he goes, Miss Kiji, I said, you have to balance it if you don't want it to tip over. And so he decided that okay, he was gonna balance it. And he did. And when he got to the end, he said, Miss Keiji, but it was a different Miss KG. Like, oh, look at me, I did it. And I said, Yes, you balanced it out. Look at that. That's problem solving. He made the same mistake over and over again till he was convinced, not by my conviction that he needed to balance it.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Or your prescription.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Or my prescription that, oh, this is what you should do. He did listen. So when I saw that he didn't listen after like the third time, I didn't give him any suggestion anymore because there's something called, there's something we call um control of error in the materials that children work with.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:45

You don't need to tell a child that the puzzle did not fit. They can't see, they can sense it that it did not. You don't need to say, ah, ah, you don't need to. There is something built in in every material that they work with. It's called control of error. They can see there is an error. You don't have to help. You don't have to button. You don't have to, you know. So I kept my suggestion to myself because as an adult, it's very hard not to suggest. He found his problem solving. He solved the problem all by himself. And I was there to say, Oh, look, look at what you did. I didn't say well done because I stopped using well done. So all I said was, look at you, you did it, you made it. And then I said, look at how you started. The dream was tipping over, but now it's no longer tipping over. And then I asked him, What did you do? And he tried to explain that, oh, oh, now he put in his two-year-old way, like, oh, the blogs, the blogs, the and he tried to explain what he actually did. Because you must tell me, oh, uh, you must tell me what you now finally did. Because I want to hear your your thinking. Yes, you know.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Interpretation of success.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Of success. And and yes. So problem solving. I can't teach that. I can't say, oh, oh, shalom, this is how we problem solve.

unknown 47:00

I can't.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

I can't. So you can explain collaboration, right? Sharing, working together. You can explain different things. But there are things that you cannot explain. Negotiating when children are playing together. They solve their problems by themselves. I don't know if adults will maybe any adult that doesn't realize that it's because they've gone to button too early to be solving problems that does not concern them. As long as there is no accident of hitting or let them solve it by themselves. When they come to report to you, send them back. That's what I do. So Miss KJ, oh, Zuzu took my. So what are you gonna tell Zuzu? Yeah, I'm not gonna be there when you're at school. If somebody does that to you at school, what will you do? So they go back. If you don't help them, they go back. They go back, stop helping them with everything. Allow them to develop to be independent human beings. They go back and then they say, it's not very nice that you snatched.

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:05

It's not very this, whatever they want to use, or whatever language they're used to. And then they say you can have it because they know they can't take it from you anymore. And they say you can have it for five minutes, and then it'll be my turn. Because that's what they've learned from the environment. Whoever has it first gets to keep it for maybe five minutes or whatever, you know, whatever rules work. They learn they can solve problems by themselves. You can't teach these things. You can give the language, you can give the laws.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

You can't help them with negotiation. You can't help them with um problem solving. You can help them with collaboration, you can give them the tools, but they have to implement it.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Very true. It's like the story of the caterpillar becoming a butterfly, that whole period where they're forming their muscles, blood, blood vessels flowing before they can fly. I think it's just that lack of patience and also the need to step in. And I think if parents or adults allow children to use their own skills, to develop their own skills, problem-solving skills, it's far better because that's how they'll face life.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

Yes, and take risk.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

And take risks.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

Take risk, allow them to take risks, and they can only take risk and play because it's safe. No one is checking to see if they made a mistake or if they rode too the wrong way in another universe. It's important, very important. So, yes, I would say when children play, they are not preparing for learning later. You know, they are learning now, they're building the skills that they will use for the rest of their lives. Um and it's often without even realizing it. So um, all the things you want an adult to be, all these amazing things, children already learn them in play. All this skills, you say, Oh, it should be, you know, critical thinking, it should be problem solving, they should have this. All these things you see in job job when they write all the things that they're in description, thank you. That's what we learn in the early years, yes, in play. That's it. Yeah, if you want a better way to put it all together, all your requirements for an adult, for a job, the kind of employee you would want, is learned through play without the children even realizing it. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Okay. For the mothers listening right now, let's get very practical. A mother who wants her children, and especially her daughters, to grow up grounded in their identity, in love with stories, and confident in their own voice. Where does she start at home? What are the most important things she can actually do?

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Okay, uh I'm just going to go right into it. Um, first, talk to your children. Uh, not just to instruct them, but to genuinely converse with them. Um period. Period. And ask questions. Don't give your own opinions. Nobody really wants it.

SPEAKER_02 51:16

Unsolicited.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Nobody like I'm not saying at the end you can close it with yours, but listen to this first so you can understand. Some parents don't know how their children think.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

Well, there's only one perspective.

SPEAKER_00 51:29

The parents' perspective. The parents' perspective. So listen to their opinions, encourage them to explain their own thinking. If they did something, ask them, okay, so this thing that you've been struggling with, what did you do differently? Yeah. That now it has worked, you know? And you know, children then develop confidence in their own voice. And they grow up feeling that their voices matter. So, secondly, I would say surround them with stories. Um, while you are together, you can just say, Oh, I'll tell you a story. I mean, in the African culture, we have lots of folklore.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

But they they're going into extinction. Nobody goes and says, Oh, let me tell you a story about the 30s that did not win the race. It's the truth. Nobody says that. How many people do you where do you go? Do you say, oh, the torties, do you not even know there is a 30 that did not win the race? But there is a torties that didn't win the race in a folklore.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:25

So you know, surround them with stories. Read to them. Tell them family stories. Tell them about their heritage. Tell them about maybe why in your family you're very determined. Maybe you come from a line of warriors. That's why you guys never give up. Tell them why they are the way they are. Do you notice that you know you never give up? It's because we come from a line of warriors. It's because, you know, something, something, something, something that happened to this, something, something. That's how you do it. That's how you, you know, few children's headwets.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

It's not just we are innately like this. And so when a child wants to give up, they remember I come from a line of warriors. My forefathers have fought for the rights of the people of Abel Kuta. My forefathers fought for the rights of people of Abel Kuta in the war. I know why I never give up.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

I come from a line of warriors. These are the things. But they don't know. The only warriors they know are, you know, Superman. I would say that. And for daughters in particular, I would say that, you know, I think it's important that they encounter uh stories that show girls and women as thinkers, creators, leaders, uh, problem solvers, and change makers. So they need to see examples that expand their sense of what is possible. Um, and third, help them develop a strong sense of identity, you know. Um, teach them about where they come from, let them know their family's history, let them hear their mother tongue, let them understand the beauty of their own culture. A child who knows what they are is less likely to be shaken by um the world's attempt to define them. So, for instance, if you're wearing a purple shirt and someone comes to you and says you're wearing a blue shirt, you don't bother arguing.

SPEAKER_02 54:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

You don't say, Oh, look at me, I'm wearing a purple shirt. It's really a purple shirt. Can't you see? You don't. You just say, okay. Because you are completely convinced you're wearing a purple shirt. What does it matter what someone else thinks? But if you don't know colors and someone comes and says you're wearing a blue shirt, you're like, eh, why? What makes you you know, you're you are ready to be convinced. That's the word. You're ready to be convinced. So uh another thing is I encourage parents to do is to model what they hope to see. Yeah, we've talked about that. So if you want to see your child reading, please read. Read with enthusiasm. Don't read on your phone. Buy books.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:58

And then make children shelves in your house where they have books, and you don't have to fill it up immediately. You can start with two, three, and then it increases over time. Um, let them read, let them be able to read the books without having to call you for help.

SPEAKER_01 55:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

So their their height, right? So uh, and perhaps most importantly, affirm who they are, not only what they achieve. So, like the two-year-old that was building the block, when he finished, I didn't say, Oh, well done. I didn't affirm what he achieved. Every time he fell, after my third suggestion of he should even them out, I only said, Oh, look at how much effort you're putting into it. Because he was putting so much effort. We don't celebrate effort. Me, I celebrate effort more than results sometimes. I have to remind myself to celebrate results as well. Because if a child has spent 15 minutes trying to solve an equation and they still get it wrong, it is unfair that you just blot out is wrong.

SPEAKER_02 56:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:02

So many children right now are afraid to make mistakes because their entire personality is built around success and not the power of failing repeatedly. Yeah. There is something failing repeatedly does to you. The two-year-old will always even now blocks, except he wants to see it for.

SPEAKER_02 56:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 56:22

If he wants to see it for, he knows what to do, which he might enjoy, surprisingly, for an adult. But children enjoy it. The cause and effect, they like it. But if he doesn't want to see it for, he knows what to do. By himself, he found out. It wasn't me. So you can't take that away from him ever. So the thing is, you know, you have to celebrate the effort. Celebrate the effort. If a child puts in effort into anything, successful or not, you celebrate the effort. You say, look at how far you've come, look at what you've done, look at how much effort you're putting into that. Your little hands are working. Look at how much work you're doing. Oh, even I couldn't do that. I say that to them. So well done. To your persistence, not really the result. Because the journey matters more. You need to tell adults that. I'm learning it too.

SPEAKER_02 57:17

Because, yes, we don't appreciate the journey. The journey is part of the refinement, the journey of the learning.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

The most important. Exactly. And so I tell, so I start writing children's books because I make up so many stories in class to encourage children to keep going. So I say things like, oh, you know, Mama goes to the gym all the time and she's tired, but she keeps at it. She keeps going and going. She goes every day, doesn't she? And then she sticks and she's like, yes. Like when Mama goes to the gym, you know, her brain is very excited. A brain is dancing because her brain is getting challenges, you know? And then I say, Do you want to be like Mama? And she's like, No. No, no, she really says no because she's tired. And she can see where you're going. You're going to tell her that she should do this that challenge you. So eventually you find all the way and you twist it, and then eventually, one particular one gets to her and she's like, ah, okay. I see it. Yes. I'll try again. I'll try again. And before she tries again, I do it, you know, multiple times, you know. So she can see that I also can struggle.

SPEAKER_02 58:27

What is the world you are working towards? When you imagine a generation of African children who grew up with all of this in place, what do they look like and what are they capable of?

SPEAKER_00 58:42

The world I'm working toward is one where African children um grow up knowing that their stories matter. I imagine children who are deeply rooted in who they are. If you check it in Italy, we Nigerians, for example, we are we are deeply rooted in who we are in a manner of speaking. In some sense, and in some sense, it's not completely, it's not holistic.

SPEAKER_02 59:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:09

But it is in some weird, weird ways. We're very like, eh, I'm Nigeriano. Yes. But more into understanding what that means when you say I'm a Nigerian or I'm an African. So I am working towards children who understand their history, not the British history. Um, appreciate their cultures and at the same time see themselves as an active contributor to global conversations and global achievement. I want children to look forward to contributing to the world at large, not being consumers, you know. Um because that's not something that many Nigerians do in terms of um innovations and contributions, and that's you know, that's it. Uh I imagine children who are curious rather than fearful. Children will ask questions, think critically, solve problems, approach learning with excitement rather than anxiety. I imagine classrooms filled with um children who see themselves reflected in what they learn and who therefore, you know, they feel a stronger um sense of belonging and possibility. I imagine young people who can communicate clearly, using their words, uh advocate for themselves, uh, collaborate with others and lead with empathy. Most importantly, I imagine a generation that does not spend years trying to discover its worth. Because it was taught from the beginning. From the beginning, they already knew. So they're not learning as adults, like most of us are doing now. So when children grow up with literacy foundations, meaningful play experiences, supportive relationships, um, positive representation, like what Nigerian authors are trying to do now, uh, and opportunities to express themselves, the impact goes far beyond education. It goes towards national development, towards continental development as a whole. So children become adults who innovate, um, create, build businesses, strengthen communities, uh shape policy, produce art, you know, and solve challenges and contribute confidently to society. Yeah. So you see that, you know, when you ask some children now what they want to be in the future, it's different from the things we used to say. I once asked a child and he said to me that he wanted to create art. He wanted to have his art in the museums. That's not what you will get from children. Like in I didn't think I wanted, I have this friend who is a sound editor and does this big, big sound thing. So I had to say to him, How did you know you wanted to do this? Because I was, I didn't have so many options, you know, as to, I didn't have the imagination as to all the things that I could be. So I want children that have the imagination as to every option of what they could be. And that's the future I'm working towards, you know, not just to change individual lives, but change families, communities, and eventually nations. Even that that part is really, really big for me. The impact of all that we're doing on the nation and the continent as a whole. Yes, because something is to give, something needs to change as a collective. Yes. Yes. So um my dream is not simply to raise children who can read books, it is to help raise a generation of African children who can read the world, um, understand their place in it, and then write a better future for themselves and others. That's it. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:45

I love that world you're trying to build. And I think the more we have these conversations, the more people become aware and are intentional about how we engage with children. Yes. And the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:57

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:58

KG, I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. And I'd like to thank you for joining us on the We Win podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:08

I hope you had a great time. I did. I did. Thank you. Thank you for having me as well and giving me the opportunity to shed light to more people. I mean, because this information, some people, it's just the lack of awareness.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:23

It's not, it's not being mean or not, it's just the lack of awareness. And once they know, I'm sure they'll be inspired to do better and join us in this future that we're all building together.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:34

Thank you so much. Thank you. So that was really insightful. Um, as a parent, I learned so much. Um, KG really covered a lot. So imagine that our child's ability to thrive in the world starts when they are teeny tiny toddlers, when they are learning through play, how they solve problems, how they communicate, how they gain confidence. And us as parents, we need to be aware that our actions are being watched by these children, and we cannot expect respect or values which we ourselves are not exhibiting or influencing. So I would like to say a huge thank you to all of you listening, and I do hope you have a great and productive week ahead. Bye bye.